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  • Ze AI art

    I get bamboozeled in to watching random Youtube shit and even worse the comment section related to what is now being referred as AI art. It's just rage bait. I know it, but I have my weaknesses.

    Far as I'm concerned AI art goes back about 50 years. It's a scale that starts from procedural generation following strict rules and ends somewhere around sentience, before the inevitable robot revolution and the following apocalypse. For me it's all just algo's doing stuff. AI art is defined in the social media by choosing a random point in that scale, when online portals gained some popularity. These portals use procedural generation with algo's that have been trained by brute force methods from a semirandom dataset of images collected by spiders. The last bit represents the current AI art defining very crude machine learning component. The tech/ware for even that bit is at it's infancy.

    From that training part comes the all "AI art is using stolen art". I would care, if that wasn't how literally every artist learns their craft. Doesn't matter, if it's through subconscious osmosis or deliberate practice involving training muscle memory and analyzing work of other artists. That's just how it works. AI training tools use miniscule parts of existing art works in their final output. The parts they use from human artists have the running theme that the artists have no claim for those individual parts, because by the same logic they themselves "stole" those parts from other artists. That is fine. That's how shit evolves. There's no point in reinventing the wheel over and over. Some cunt did an ok job on that front in the past and now it's time build on top of that.

    With still visual images (sometimes referred to as art) around 99,9-100% out of isolated elements the artist has no claim for and usually they can't own the IP/patent/copyright for that accidental 0,1% when that rarely occurs. That's just because people have been doing this shit all over the world for a few thousand years of recorded history. Being hella smart rarely beats north of billions of manhours, that the human kind has wasted in being mildly entertained by still images. Where IP comes from is combining stuff from past generations in a mildly novel way. For that we have perfectly functional laws for plagiarism (in most places) that already cover AI art.

    The basic argument is that poor artists lose their jobs when machines can do it in a fraction of the of time and cost. Popular AI art portals are capable of creating stuff today that's roughly equivalent to the impact of clip art 30 years ago. They're missing the tools for customization that is needed for commercial work. Because the basic functionality is more an ad for the portal, they produce relatively similar safe outputs. If you lose your job to that, maybe look in to learning another craft and in reality in the west your skillset was made worthless by globalization about a decade ago. Get good or get fucked.

    For the most part the biggest "honest" outrage comes from hobbyists and social media artists that make clickbait entertainment for a living. None of this is going to touch investment art or "fine art". On the commercial art side we're mostly seeing some amazing intellectual dishonesty or appropriate silence. With commercial art the first priority is getting the job done in time and within budget. How you get there doesn't really matter. With concept art photo bashing is an industry standard. With animation or VFX you're already fucking with algo's. Algo's already do majority of the grunt work in everything related 3d animation or modelling. That's because people suck at mapping and reproducing physical phenomenon's. Things like reflective light gets insane to map with multiple objects, materials, light sources and movement. Same thing with gravity and force. You can kinda ballpark it so it looks about right, but computers are so much faster and more accurate. And we don't talk about filling frames between key frames.

    There's some honest gripe in the field of 2d illustration (excluding concept art). The answer to that is to learn how to use AI tools. That field has already had to adapt to digital art and even before that there were new innovations that made older medias mostly useless. Once upon a time there was stuff like doing ad illustrations with gouache and sign painting was an actual profession. I have no idea when calligraphy became an almost useless skill outside of sign painting or the exact time line for the decline of either. Shit's gone now though. With illustrations there was a time period when alcohol markers were relevant enough that gouache disappeared. Thing with alcohol based dyes is that they degrade so fast that they are only useful for work that gets reproduced. Anyways digital art replaced all of them. Mostly as the blueprint for something that gets reproduced.

    Anyways after fucking around with offline AI tools for a week I'll summarize what it can do now at some point.

  • #2
    Intermission bit before AI stuff.

    Separation of commercial art and "fine art" is very often just time. Especially the era of the old masters (fags from 1400-1800 or so). Nearly every revered work from that time period that is now considered fine art was a commercial production. If you had any aspiration to make a living as an artist, you had to be involved with the workshop/guild system, apprentice/mentor hierarchy scale and really shady clients.

    This was because learning the craft always had a period of learning on the job either as the last or only step. If your family was wealthy enough, there were some schools, but you always tied yourself to a workshop at some point. There really was no independent/solo action outside the system unless you were backed by someone with enough pull and/or skilled enough to set up your own workshop. For the and/or bit I'm sure there were workshops that existed solely because of ones ability to suck dick, brown nosing, heritage and/or network. Those were erased from history. We only know the ones with backing and skill.

    The main reason for the workshops was (excluding ego/control/pederasty/etc.), that creating any sizable productions was ass. Sculpting any hard rocks that last is time consuming. The most common murals were frescos. As a technique/medium frescos are ass. There are shitty steps of laying down wet plaster that is followed by a very short period when you can actually paint. Mixing paint was ass, there was no projectors for transferring sketches to walls/ceilings and you mostly had to build scaffolding on the spot. There's also relatively unimportant parts of a commissioned production that's suitable for apprentices and a waste of time for the master. The grunt work. Usually background elements, some flats and then extending all the way to everything that wasn't the faces of a major characters or initial sketches.

    Then the clients. Broke fucks don't commission art. Random portraits of just mildly wealthy individuals are the bottom of the scale. The top is Vatican, royalty and wealthy merchant/banking families with a lot of overlap between the groups.

    Someone like Michelangelo didn't abuse the workshop system too much. That's to say that there's no proof that his apprentices/associates/workers did anything besides build scaffolding, take care of the plastering, transferring sketches, mixing/grinding paint, random manual labor and doing some backgrounds later in his career. His early work with the Sistine Chapel ceiling is often mentioned as something he did by "himself" as an anomaly for the era. By himself meant that he only had about a dozen people working on it. For other stuff relating to old masters, he was trained in a school/workshop and used those contacts later in his career. Most of his career he was under the direct patronage of the Medici family and they with Vatican were his biggest clients when they weren't in practice the same entity. He wasn't that big on mentoring so that likely explains why he didn't have apprentices do more work for him. Everyone involved in his productions was essentially a gig worker or a loose associate.

    Why I'm mention this is because a lot of younger and/or hobbyist artists have a really deluded view of how things were done in the past. There are relatively few starving artist types that did stuff for the passion of doing stuff that weren't completely erased from history. Really just a handful of dudes from late 1800s. Van Gogh and some others I can't think of now. Majority of the revered artists worked in a very pragmatic, strict, hierarchical, unethical and elitist environment. They just didn't go out of their way to create self imposed limitations for the sake of keeping art "pure" or "ethical". Most of them considered themselves as craftsmen, because that's what they were. The whole artist faggotry with creativity, inspiration and talent means nothing. Talent is roughly a 1% of the craft, if you believe in that type of thing. If you're looking to make a living, you start working in the morning. No one has time to wait when you feel like doing something and creativity is just doing stuff till you find something that works. Artist block is constant for everyone that works daily. Only people that take forever to do stuff have anything resembling spikes of inspiration.

    Oh and why I was thinking of Michelangelo was because his name was mentioned in a comment rambling about how AI art software caters to Elitism or some shit. Maybe the logic was that shareholders of the software companies are driving artist out of the business and that consolidates creation of all artwork to very few operators. Dunno, but old masters are a really bad example against elitism. In the west we don't have an equivalent to Medici family anymore. Maybe the closest thing is the full conspiritard version of the Rothchilds.

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    • #3
      Running out of time, but here's a short version of what I learned in about 40 hours playing with AI.

      The current offline AI art freeware can streamline 2d art the way 3d art does it. With 3d art you just have to create (or buy) a 3d model of every object that's used in a scene and with some tweaking the software does the rest. You still need to assign certain physical properties to every object and usually paint the flats. The part where a lot of time is saved comes from ability to freely move the camera (or perspective), light sources and having fully rigged 3d models. For characters fully rigged means a rough skeleton for larger movement and then a more fine tuned rigging for jiggly physics type of stuff. All and all it just means that creating a 10s running animation can take a few minutes to create after quite a lot of time setting all this shit up.

      For custom characters there is freeware software that you can just tweak and rigging is pretty easy because all human skeletons follow roughly the same rules for major movement. For minor moving parts like the soft tissue of the human body or the way clothing behaves in movement is usually left for algo's. You're just left with a slider for stylistics choices. Sort of common basic animation patterns there's also decent free option around. So that 10s running animation can literally be 2 clicks. Start and end.

      For 2d stuff that was always a bit harder and that resulted in some animation studios adopting a sort of 2.5d approach. Anyways running out of time and i'll explain a little later how current freeware AI tools can get pretty close with common freeware with relatively reasonable hardware requirements.

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      • #4
        i run stable diffusion and a bunch of other modeling stuff and i like it because i get to make my computer dream and i get to see the dreams.

        in as much its pretty and conjured from thin air i consider it valid and interesting but i dont consider it art.

        and every time someone gets hysterical about how ai art is art, its someone with exactly zero real artistic aptitude. usually they mean well but they really dont get it.

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        • #5
          also i apologize because i was heading into a meeting and wanted to get those thoughts done fast. you raise amazing points and deserve a more thoughtful response.

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          • #6
            Current online portals are a rough equivalent of commissioning "art" from Fiverr. They're not functional tools for anything really.

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            • #7
              What I'm talking about are offline portals like this random WIP workflow of stable diffusion using ComfyUI.

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              • #8
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                • #9
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                  • #10
                    The bare minimum is img2img, inpainting, masks, controlnet and Lora capabilities for making stable diffusion a functional tool.

                    The 2 most useful controlnets are canny and depth. Canny deals with lines and depth creates depth maps. When you calibrate those correctly you can render line art images very accurately.

                    Loras are trained from small datasets to do specific things. Such as a single character. Say if you're looking to make Scarlett Johansson fake porn. First you need few hundred images of Scarlett, have AI sort them out where every image is paired with text prompts and then bake that shit in about 5mins to a Lora that's only job is capturing Scarlett's likeness.

                    The base model of stable diffusions poses, camera angles and rendering styles is relatively limited. You can fix all that by using different Loras. They're all controlled by keywords and weights. Once you key in the placement for all elements that are not just rendering variations you can lock those in with controlnets and start fiddling with lighting and stylistic options.

                    Because stable diffusion is just a brute force machine that only fucks with noise it struggles with anatomy, perspective and depth. Those are all things that can be fixed, but on it's own it's lost when the image has anything more than a foreground and background with almost no overlapping objects.

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                    • #11
                      Some time ago making a comic book page had a pipeline of 3 artists. Sketching, inking and coloring so you could churn out a finished page once a day. Single person could do all that using nothing but freeware today.

                      Relatively rough sketches can be refined faster than doing all of it by hand. Inking takes the least time after that and fully rendering the page with some tweaking can be done in a way where you can't tell the difference from the way it was done before.

                      For that to be time/cost efficient it generally requires repetitive characters and several issues. It's not worth it for a 3 page story with a one-off character, but for most Marvel/DC releases it is. You always create inhouse assets or buy licenses for copyright reasons and it requires an artist for the sketching part. You also need artists to create the overall art style, character designs and various reusable assets.

                      It's the 80/20 thing. Sketching is 80% of the work, but it's not that time consuming. Almost all the decisions that matter are done in the sketching phase and that's absolutely not something that everyone could do with just the help of a software. Actually nearly every part of this pipeline requires artists.

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                      • #12
                        lol.. lmao

                        tool for poisoning drive by AI art ingestion programs.

                        https://www.technologyreview.com/202...-generative-ai

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                        • #13
                          So far the biggest obstacle is lack of a decent offline UI with integration to digital painting/editing softwares.

                          Before i started fucking with this i really didn't have any need to know what cmd/git/pip etc. were. I'd prefer to be completely oblivious the anything related to code.

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                          • sonatine
                            sonatine commented
                            Editing a comment
                            i keep an eye on /r/stablediffusion and something ive noticed is that the most impressive work is done by people who do graphic design for a living, and there always seems to be closed source / commercial software in the mix. and more to your point, theres a ton of good work being done elsewhere but its all being distributed by developers who have no motivation to make it more accessible to people who arent developers themselves. i think the only time ive seen us break free from that has been the deepfake frameworks that came out ages ago and everyone used for faceswap n00dz or bad lipsyncs etc. in any case i think its well worth the rewards to get ahead of the curve and get comfortable with CLI environments.

                        • #14
                          Yea I spent like 3 hours today fixing comfyui after i fucked it up by using a download/update addon that works well for everything else except the "update all" button. Some remnants left over from an earlier version that fucked with python dependencies table.

                          After installing visual studio, random c++ stuff, rust, setting paths and pip install transformers -U shit I did the smart thing and looked at what the error message was. Googling that gave me a reasonable map to follow. I guess it's logical that the error message directs you to the file that gives you the error message, with a convenient hint that's useful if you have version of whatever that is too old. Completely useless though, if your upper bound got fucked. So in the end i fixed it with notepad.

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                          • #15
                            Most of the stuff you can find from civitai.com. Obv anything with commercial potential is usually 1-2 versions behind and inhouse stuff never gets published. There's a really low skill floor and a very high ceiling. The ceiling hits when you need to customize images or do something specific with just prompts. Being able to draw is a huge edge. Currently stable diffusion is at its best when it's working from sketches, just shotgunning concept art stuff or creating photobash fodder.

                            It can do more in the future, when someone bothers to code fundamentals into the programs. Rough equivalent of giving chess AI's opening and end game tables. Brute force is pretty good at the middle part and it seems to work best when that's the only thing it cares about. Currently stable diffusion and friends waste a lot power in reinventing the wheel. Fundamentals aren't as easy to code since they're more of a combined threshold than anything else, but i don't think we can't get there in a few years.

                            In chess the middle game isn't binary and the point when AI became really invaluable was when it got less pruned or given too static values for assumed edges. Chess does differ from ai art by having a clear win condition.

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                            • gimmick
                              gimmick commented
                              Editing a comment
                              re:civitai, about 80% of all assets is for porn and/or fan service, so about standard tech evolution ratio
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